Feminist rantings. You have been warned.

[mari4212]

In religion class today, we were talking about images of daughters. And the one we spent the most time on was Dinah. If you're not familiar with the biblical tale, she was a daughter of Jacob who went out to visit the women living nearby, and was raped by Shechem. He then fell in love with her and asked her father for her hand in marriage. Jacob agreed, on the condition that he and his people had to be circumsized. While the men were all recovering, two of Jacob's sons killed them all to revenge the insult against Dinah and their family.

We ended up talking about how several of the midrash basically blamed Dinah, saying that if she hadn't gone out of her tent, it wouldn't have happened, tying this story back into the idea of modesty. And then one of the girls in the class brought up the idea that it was like wearing provocative clothes, that if you went too far you were asking for it. She also mentioned something about prostitutes probably not minding getting raped.

I was stunned. I'm now calm enough to be able to think about it rationally, but still. Just, no. I thought we were beyond the blame the victim mode of thought here. A woman does not ask to be raped. It is a crime, a horrible violation of her, and no one deserves it. It is an act of violence, and its root is not sexual, but agression and a desire for power over someone.

Luckily, everyone else in the class was quick to correct her, and the teacher asked her if she was sure she meant to say what she was implying. In her defense, I don't think she meant it, but still. How can anyone seriously say something like that?

Comments

[ljmckay.livejournal.com]

Oh my gosh, a girl said this? Not that that has any bearing on it, really, but you'd think she'd be able to think about it a bit more rationally...

Wow. I'm not even that much of a feminist and I would never say anything like that. "...prostitutes probably not minding getting raped"? What?!

Your anger is justified. She may not have meant it but she at least ought to have thought about what she was saying before she said it.

[mari4212.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we were all a little bit shocked. It was obvious that she didn't quite mean what she said, but it was annoying to say the least.

I wouldn't define myself as a radical feminist, but I agree with the basic stance of feminism, which is that women should be counted as men's equals, and that we have to make sure that this happens.

[ljmckay.livejournal.com]

My philosophy is basically that, as well. Women have the right to the opportunity to do everything men can do but I draw the line at believing we have the right to do anything we want, just because (I can't believe I'm saying this) "our reproductive organs are on the inside instead of the outside." Some women I've met seem to think this way and it's aggravating; yes, we need the chance but if we screw that up then we're not entitled to any more of a second chance than our male counterparts.

Whew. *climbs down off soapbox* Sorry; I think I'm preaching to the choir...

[mari4212.livejournal.com]

Yeah, people who act like women should now get to do anything they want, regardless of their talents and abilities, because they are women, are just as annoying as the reverse. And just as bigoted. It's like the question: Should a woman be president? And the answer for me is: who is the woman, what are her stances on the issues, is she more capable than the other canidates?

Although, I do think the best insult I've ever recieved is to be called a hairy-legged liberal feminist by a girl in my high school religion class. This was a girl with the bright idea that men and women aren't the same, so we shouldn't be treated equally.

[jediravenclaw.livejournal.com]

daaaaamn....I prolly would have not been able to sit thru that class...I think that's a bit much there..

[mari4212.livejournal.com]

She was the only one to say that, and I don't think she really meant it as such, but yeah, I was rather irked.

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

Oh my...

That's actually making me feel rather sick. Rape is not the fault of the victim, whether they be female or male.

I'm so glad everyone corrected her.

[mari4212.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the sickened reaction was mine as well. How can people actually say that, even if it was not exactly what they meant.

My response to her is the same as it was to the girl who thought that calling me and a friend "hairy legged liberal feminists" was an insult. Namely, and what planet are you from, so I know not to go there?

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

Namely, and what planet are you from, so I know not to go there?

Hee! And did she really think "hairy legged liberal feminists" was an insult??? That's actually quite a compliment; well, as long as you're talking about the sensible ones.

[mari4212.livejournal.com]

Especially as my friend and I are both moderate feminists. No random male-bashing, just demanding an equal opportunity to succeed or fail on our merits, not our gender.

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

No random male-bashing, just demanding an equal opportunity to succeed or fail on our merits, not our gender.

Yes. That's exactly what I believe too.

[mari4212.livejournal.com]

Yay! Luckily, I grew up in a setting where nobody I knew even questioned this. It was a fundamental fact, like the sky being up or reading being wonderful.

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

*nods* Me too. I've grown up in a single-parent family and, as it was my mum who raised me, there was never any doubt as to that principle.

or reading being wonderful.

*g* I love that fact.

[mari4212.livejournal.com]

My parents are still together, but they always encouraged us to go with our talents, regardless of gender stereotypes. My mom and my oldest sister are the people who build and repair stuff around the house, and my dad and my brother both like to sew and cook, and do so very well. I think I'm the most gender typical person in the house.

I love that fact too. My first memory is of my mother taking all four of us kids up to the library, she did it once a week for years.

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

Hee! That's terrific. I love it when people put the stereotypes to shame. But the stereotypes shouldn't matter. People should do what they think is most important to them and their talens.

Awwwwwwwwww! That's cute. When I was 8 - 11 yrs old, I used to ride five minutes to the library. I'd get out 7 books, read 'em all, and go back the next day. I loved it so much.

[mari4212.livejournal.com]

Which was sort of my point. We all went with our interests and talents. Elizabeth likes building stuff, Thomas does like cooking and sewing, although that's not all they are.

Me too! I didn't really read until second grade, when I got glasses and could finally see the words, but then I dove head first into my books. Mom calls the library when she wants to find me.

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

Mom calls the library when she wants to find me.

Hee. Mine always did the same thing.