Fandom musings
Feb. 1st, 2006 01:17 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mari4212It was bound to happen sooner or later, Star Wars always makes me think about moral issues.
What sparked this meta was my noting, once again, how differently the Star Wars universe looks at the moral underpinnings of the universe, compaired to my own views. I'm an optimist and an idealist, a large part of my worldview is that the universe tends towards good, and that people as a whole tend towards good as well. In Star Wars, on the other hand, things are a bit more balanced, and even the best of the characters struggles hard to avoid falling to the Dark Side. It's actually one of the main disconnects I have with the series, I'm always assuming things will go better than they do. It's also probably the reason I tend to prefer the more optimistic books of the Star Wars expanded universe.
That comparison on moral worldviews made me think more about other fandoms I like, and what their view on the morality underpinnings of the universe are. Some, like the Valdemar series by Mercedes Lackey, or the various Star Trek incarnations, share my optimism about people and the universe. They tend to be my natural fandoms, ones that I aquired with very few people ever really pushing them at me.
And then there are those fandoms which, while the source material is wonderful, and I fall in love with the characters and the stories, I'm never truly as comfortable in. No matter how much I love his work, the worldview in Joss Whedon's universes doesn't make sense to me. His fandoms, and others like them, are an aquired taste for me, I have to work at it for a while before I fall in love with them. Sometimes, it's worth the work, and I fall in love once I make that initial effort to get past the disconnect. Other times, I just decide it's not worth that much work.
Opinions? Thoughts? Random bursts of insanity?
What sparked this meta was my noting, once again, how differently the Star Wars universe looks at the moral underpinnings of the universe, compaired to my own views. I'm an optimist and an idealist, a large part of my worldview is that the universe tends towards good, and that people as a whole tend towards good as well. In Star Wars, on the other hand, things are a bit more balanced, and even the best of the characters struggles hard to avoid falling to the Dark Side. It's actually one of the main disconnects I have with the series, I'm always assuming things will go better than they do. It's also probably the reason I tend to prefer the more optimistic books of the Star Wars expanded universe.
That comparison on moral worldviews made me think more about other fandoms I like, and what their view on the morality underpinnings of the universe are. Some, like the Valdemar series by Mercedes Lackey, or the various Star Trek incarnations, share my optimism about people and the universe. They tend to be my natural fandoms, ones that I aquired with very few people ever really pushing them at me.
And then there are those fandoms which, while the source material is wonderful, and I fall in love with the characters and the stories, I'm never truly as comfortable in. No matter how much I love his work, the worldview in Joss Whedon's universes doesn't make sense to me. His fandoms, and others like them, are an aquired taste for me, I have to work at it for a while before I fall in love with them. Sometimes, it's worth the work, and I fall in love once I make that initial effort to get past the disconnect. Other times, I just decide it's not worth that much work.
Opinions? Thoughts? Random bursts of insanity?
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Dad here
Date: 2006-02-01 08:21 pm (UTC)Other worlds slide a bit more into the dualist good/evil, with good and evil neatly balanced, like your example of Star Wars.
A different view might be Joss Wheldon's worlds (Buffy and Angel). There, there is clearly a difference between a cosmic good and evil, but it is entirely divorced from moral choices. In his world, you can be on the side of good, but have very bad morals and treat people badly.
Least fun are those where evil is just too strong. Highlander seems to fit there, with most (virtually all) of the Immortals corrupted by their status and power, and only the occasional Immortal who maintain their decency by an act of supreme will.
Re: Dad here
Date: 2006-02-02 01:16 pm (UTC)And even in SG-1 and Atlantis, there's at least one member of the alien race that turns out good. Ellia, on Atlantis, the Tok'ra, Chakka...it seems that every species must be free to choose good, even if it is hard for them to do so.
And that's the reason why I eventually had to stop watching Highlander. It got too negative, too depressing.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-01 11:47 pm (UTC)I think the reason I like Star Wars so much is more because it's as much a fantasy/fairy tale as it is science fiction. Those sorts of worlds have always held a special appeal for me, since I'm of the firm belief that science is simply magic explained.
I watched Star Trek, all four of them (Enterprise does not count in my book. To me, it never existed) because of the optimistic outlook. Yeah, there were enemies, but hey, as long as we all work together in a spirit of community everything will turn out for the better. It's a generalization I know, but that's how many episodes went (and maybe DS9 veered waaaaaaaaay off that, I dunno, I couldn't quite get into that one).
Stargate, to me, is much more realistic than Star Trek ever was. Maybe because the humans are still human, and still have their superiority complexes and ideas on how everything in the universe revolves around them, and yet still keep up that optimistic "We can do anything so long as we work together in the spirit of community".
As for the Joss verse...I never got into Buffy. However, Firefly appeals to the part of me that always wanted a western in space. It's the same part of me that enjoyed Cowboy Bebop and Trigun, even though they could be a little depressing at times.
All in all, I much prefer those shows, books, movies, etc. that have an optimistic outlook on life. Even if the humor is dark, and things are happening that no sane person should ever have to deal with, the people are still able to keep themselves above it, and don't sink into a deep dark depression that they'll never lift out of and OMGTEHANGST!!! Dean Koontz is an excellent writer of said material.
I think that might count as a random burst of insanity.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-02 05:07 am (UTC)...Do you mind if I add that to my list of quotes? It's just too good to turn aside.
Now on to the rest of what you were saying.
I do agree that Star Wars is in many ways more a myth than anything else. It is the modern hero-myth for most people.
Your comments about Lucas drawing from Oriental culture does make sense, and it does fit with the dualist nature of their universe.
I love the crazy optimism of Star Trek, it's what made me fall in love with the universe from such an early age. (I think I was eight when I was watching Next Gen reruns.) And don't get me started on Enterprise. I thought it had a lot of potential in the characters and idea, but it got totally ruined.
Stargate and Atlantis are a nice blend, because while the characters are recognizably from our era and mindset, they do strive to go beyond. It's not the utopia that Star Trek presents at times, but they are trying, unlike some shows.
And I agree with you. I need that more optimistic view on life and the world, even when the situations the characters go through are insane.
If this is you insane, I need to incourage it more often!
no subject
Date: 2006-02-02 05:43 am (UTC)Quote away!
no subject
Date: 2006-02-02 01:32 pm (UTC)L33T H@XOR
Date: 2006-02-02 06:44 am (UTC)So, is appreciation of various Sci-Fi/Fantasy fandoms really a question of East vs. West? I do tend to think so. Science Fiction and Fantasy are morality plays in really kickass costumes with badass weaponry. They are designed to show that no matter how odd the circumstances are, people tend to act in recognizable ways. Seeing as how the best fandoms are driven by characters, you will tend to gravitate towards the characters (and their corresponding fandoms) that speak to your inner morality.
Having grown up in a Hindu household, I guess I can recognize more of the Eastern bits of Star Wars more than the average lightsaber wielding schmo. Having grown somewhat disenchanted with Eastern thinking, I find that my overall appreciation of Star Wars goes down with time (but that might have more to do with the latest 3 installments than anything). Now, don't get me wrong, there are still few cooler creations than the lightsaber and the Milllenium Falcon, and Darth Vader is still the Platinum Standard for villains, but the underlying fundamentals of the Star Wars Universe speak to me less and less as time goes on.
By contrast, I fall more and more deeply in love with Narnia and Middle Earth. Now, obviously, the writers of both series share certain fundamental beliefs with me, and so I love their writing more. Now, you can argue till you're blue in the face about which characters are cooler: Luke or Frodo, Han or Aragorn, Obi-Wan or Aslan, it's an argument that's hard to win. But, the clincher is the universe, and its underlying values. Seeing as how Narnia and Middle-Earth are very Judeo-Christian, and the Galaxy Far Far away is very Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist/etc. etc., I go for the Judeo-Christian characters every time.
There are other values that make you love a universe. I fear the government and big business. So, like Kaylee says, I love my Captain. The rebel/loner/anarchist/pioneer in everyone will love Serenity and Cowboy Bebop. The heart of man that will not stand for chains and injustice loves Mal because he is his own boss and is ruled by nothing but his sense of fairness and justice. He doesn't stand for meddlers and men who stand on the backs of others. He believes in an honest living, and being as dishonest as it takes to achieve that. As for Spike, well, he may not have Mal's moral compass, but you gotta love a guy who uses Jeet Kun Do and lights his cigarettes with flame throwers.
So, conclusions in short: fandom universes are defined by their characters and their moral beliefs in my opinion. My feelings on a fandom are pretty much characterized by my relationship with the characters. You go through all the steps, nervous apprehension in meeting them, that gradual getting to know you bit, and finally, the choice, acceptance or rejection. If you're lucky, your relationship with the fandom develops like a normal healthy one (obviously aided along by fellow members OF said fandom) and you get good things out of it. Like all relationships, there are pitfalls. Just like people can become dependent, you can get all crazy obsessive (but I wouldn't know anything about that (hides Star Trek Encyclopedia and closet full of Star Trek toys and Star Wars posters and lightsabers and Lego Models and...oh who am I kidding, I AM obsessed!)). And, if either side won't open up and there's no real get to know, everything goes sour.
Yeah, so that wasn't such a brief summary. What can I say, you got me talking about Sci-Fi, you expect me to stop? Silly silly, you obviously didn't know what you got yourself into! ;)
Re: L33T H@XOR
Date: 2006-02-02 01:42 pm (UTC)Oh don't stop, I love it.
You make a very good point with the comparison between Eastern views and Western Judeo-Christian views. I don't have much experience with Eastern views, as I was brought up Episcopalian, but I do find more comfort in the fantasy worlds built along those lines of thought. And considering how much Madeline L'Engle and C.S. Lewis shaped my views on religion, it's no wonder that I love their worlds.
It's interesting that you point out Firefly in terms of characters, because thats how I end up identifing with it as well. I can see greater and lesser parts of me in Simon, Kaylee, and Shepard Book, and it's in identifying with them that I was drawn into the story.
PS
Date: 2006-02-02 06:48 am (UTC)Do you think I'm trying to weave a spell? Perhaps I am; but remember your fairy tales. Spells are used for breaking enchantments as well as inducing them. And you and I have need of the strongest spell that can be found to wake us from the evil enchantment of worldliness which has been laid upon us for nearly a hundred years.
~C. S. Lewis, in defense of fantasy as a genre
Re: PS
Date: 2006-02-02 01:43 pm (UTC)