This is a fandom related issue...
Dec. 13th, 2005 09:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mari4212But I do think it has brought up some broader issues in my mind.
Most of you are aware of the fact that I am a member of![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
hogwarts_elite, and that part of that community involves sorting new members. Normally, it goes well. The applicant posts, I look at their answers, make my initial opinions, and then read through at least some of the other votes. It might be that I had considered the applicant for Ravenclaw, but none of the 'Claws seemed to want her. Or I might have lacked a major vibe, but the Gryffindors are all clamoring for him. This week, something has happened to disturb that pattern.
This applicant, http://www.livejournal.com/community/sorting_elite/395944.html#cutid1, posted. Now, on the whole, I wasn't too impressed with his application. There wasn't that much examination or understanding of the text, and there were several answers that were very short. For example, he didn't explain any of his personality traits. I was left unmoved, and I probably would have squibbed him for that, unless the others had seen something I'd missed. So I moved down to the comments.
One of the basic rules of the sorting community was that applicants are not allowed to comment on the votes they recieve. This is supposed to prevent wank. This applicant, apparently, noticed that he was recieving a lot of squib votes, at which point he decided that if he was getting squibbed, he might as well have fun with it. He started commenting back. Rather snarkily in fact. To the point of rudeness, in my mind.
Now, various members of the comm responded in different ways. Some were amused at his audacity, and liked the snarky comments. Others were upset because he was breaking the rules of the comm, rules that we'd been sorted under, and he was rather rude. I fell more in line with the second category.
This was my response to him:
First off, I must appologize to the Slytherins who desperately want you in here. But I cannot, and will not, sort you into a house here.
1. So hard work, loyalty, determination and a desire for justice makes a person useless? Right. Well I'll just toddle off the face of the planet then, eliminate one more useless person. Sure, Hufflepuffs haven't been prominent in the books, but we certainly have a purpose and meaning. Pomona Sprout, at the end of Half Blood Prince, stating that the school should remain open, even if it's only for one person. She was the one to remember the ideals of Hogwarts. That alone proves that Hufflepuffs are not useless.
2. It's called basic common sense. You want to apply to a community that has a reputation for squibing people who don't live up to our standards, you check and see what those standards are. Read the rules through, and then check applications that get in to see what the standard is. Yes, it is high. Perhaps at times too high. But applying here means that you have accepted that standard and want to be judged by it.
3. Read. The. Darned. Rules. There is no reason for you to have not done so. Several people have stated that they would have voted you in if you had obeyed the rules and not commented on the votes. I went through this process two months ago. There were comments that had me scratching my head, wondering what the voter was thinking. There were things said that I desperately wanted to respond to. The same is true for most of our members, I am sure. But we obeyed the rules. It's not fair to let you in when you have disobeyed that big of a rule. And yes, this is the legendary Hufflepuff fairness drive kicking in.
4. While we're on the topic of your comments on the votes, what ever happened to common curtesy? I can understand you trying to be funny, but many of your comments crossed the line and are rude and hurtful.
Squib.
He responded, and we debated for a bit. I really did try to stay polite, and to not attack him personally, but I'm not sure how well I succeeded. We seemed to be coming from entirely different perspectives about how a discussion should be conducted, and that tends to lead to some rather interesting misinterpretation and disagreement.
What I want to hear from you guys, and I want your honest answer, even if you think I'm taking this whole thing far too seriously, is do you think I'm being fair to him? Am I taking the whole thing too seriously? Am I overreacting to his comments to the community members, and to me?
This also ties in with a wider discussion that I've seen happening on several journals about fandom curtesy and ettiquette. Personally, I try to be polite, try not to offend, and I really work at making my criticism, when I have it, about specific points and as respectful as possible. Others favore a blunter policy, thinking that it's more honest. I have a hard time getting into a disagreement with people that I know favor the blunt approach, because I am sensitive, and sometimes things that they say hurt when they don't mean it to. I have a feeling part of my problem with this guy is that he falls into the bluntly honest category, and doesn't care if he offends.
Most of you are aware of the fact that I am a member of
hogwarts_elite, and that part of that community involves sorting new members. Normally, it goes well. The applicant posts, I look at their answers, make my initial opinions, and then read through at least some of the other votes. It might be that I had considered the applicant for Ravenclaw, but none of the 'Claws seemed to want her. Or I might have lacked a major vibe, but the Gryffindors are all clamoring for him. This week, something has happened to disturb that pattern. This applicant, http://www.livejournal.com/community/sorting_elite/395944.html#cutid1, posted. Now, on the whole, I wasn't too impressed with his application. There wasn't that much examination or understanding of the text, and there were several answers that were very short. For example, he didn't explain any of his personality traits. I was left unmoved, and I probably would have squibbed him for that, unless the others had seen something I'd missed. So I moved down to the comments.
One of the basic rules of the sorting community was that applicants are not allowed to comment on the votes they recieve. This is supposed to prevent wank. This applicant, apparently, noticed that he was recieving a lot of squib votes, at which point he decided that if he was getting squibbed, he might as well have fun with it. He started commenting back. Rather snarkily in fact. To the point of rudeness, in my mind.
Now, various members of the comm responded in different ways. Some were amused at his audacity, and liked the snarky comments. Others were upset because he was breaking the rules of the comm, rules that we'd been sorted under, and he was rather rude. I fell more in line with the second category.
This was my response to him:
First off, I must appologize to the Slytherins who desperately want you in here. But I cannot, and will not, sort you into a house here.
1. So hard work, loyalty, determination and a desire for justice makes a person useless? Right. Well I'll just toddle off the face of the planet then, eliminate one more useless person. Sure, Hufflepuffs haven't been prominent in the books, but we certainly have a purpose and meaning. Pomona Sprout, at the end of Half Blood Prince, stating that the school should remain open, even if it's only for one person. She was the one to remember the ideals of Hogwarts. That alone proves that Hufflepuffs are not useless.
2. It's called basic common sense. You want to apply to a community that has a reputation for squibing people who don't live up to our standards, you check and see what those standards are. Read the rules through, and then check applications that get in to see what the standard is. Yes, it is high. Perhaps at times too high. But applying here means that you have accepted that standard and want to be judged by it.
3. Read. The. Darned. Rules. There is no reason for you to have not done so. Several people have stated that they would have voted you in if you had obeyed the rules and not commented on the votes. I went through this process two months ago. There were comments that had me scratching my head, wondering what the voter was thinking. There were things said that I desperately wanted to respond to. The same is true for most of our members, I am sure. But we obeyed the rules. It's not fair to let you in when you have disobeyed that big of a rule. And yes, this is the legendary Hufflepuff fairness drive kicking in.
4. While we're on the topic of your comments on the votes, what ever happened to common curtesy? I can understand you trying to be funny, but many of your comments crossed the line and are rude and hurtful.
Squib.
He responded, and we debated for a bit. I really did try to stay polite, and to not attack him personally, but I'm not sure how well I succeeded. We seemed to be coming from entirely different perspectives about how a discussion should be conducted, and that tends to lead to some rather interesting misinterpretation and disagreement.
What I want to hear from you guys, and I want your honest answer, even if you think I'm taking this whole thing far too seriously, is do you think I'm being fair to him? Am I taking the whole thing too seriously? Am I overreacting to his comments to the community members, and to me?
This also ties in with a wider discussion that I've seen happening on several journals about fandom curtesy and ettiquette. Personally, I try to be polite, try not to offend, and I really work at making my criticism, when I have it, about specific points and as respectful as possible. Others favore a blunter policy, thinking that it's more honest. I have a hard time getting into a disagreement with people that I know favor the blunt approach, because I am sensitive, and sometimes things that they say hurt when they don't mean it to. I have a feeling part of my problem with this guy is that he falls into the bluntly honest category, and doesn't care if he offends.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 04:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 04:57 am (UTC)*hugs back*
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 04:35 am (UTC)I don't know. I feel you handled it well and were completely right in everything. *huggles you*
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 04:59 am (UTC)*hugs back*
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 04:37 am (UTC)*snuggles*
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 05:01 am (UTC)*snuggles back*
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 04:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 05:03 am (UTC)*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 06:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-15 03:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 05:47 am (UTC)"Call me when I can legally have sex with you."
Thats not cool.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 05:51 am (UTC)And you're welcome to visit my journal at any time. It's mostly about college stuff, I'll warn you.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 06:00 am (UTC)Yeah! I'm a friend! -hugs-
Woo! I'm used to college stuff with my brother and sister.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 06:09 am (UTC)*hugs back* Of course you are!
As long as you aren't bored.